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NSPlayer > Guides > Comm Guide


Posted by: Az0r Jul 28 2005, 06:00 PM
Up until now, there haven't been a lot of comming guides available on either AusNS or NSPlayer. I got talking with haymo a couple of nights ago and we both decided that we needed one. I decided to write this guide to give an explanation of what most structures do and to give a bit of advice behind some strategies. This is by no means a complete and perfect work. If anyone feels I have left out important aspects please post so we can add them.

Also feel free to reproduce this work anywhere. I honestly don't care about this guide being credited to me. I just want there to be a guide that anyone can look at and feel they actually learned something from it.

Structure Placement:
While many comms just bang down what ever structure they are dropping, strategic placement of structures is actually a critical aspect of comming. Take marine spawn for instance; usually at the start of a game the comm will drop an IP an armory and 1-2 upgrade structures (obs, armslab). By placing the structures in the right places it makes it a lot easier for marines to kill any life forms that may attack your spawn. However, if you just throw down your base in any random form it makes it a lot harder for you to defend your spawn against lone skulks. Also try to place your obs in a position so that its "radar" area covers the entrances to your spawn. This way your marines will not be ambushed as soon as they leave.

Usually placing the IPs as far from the CC as possible is a good idea and placing the other structures against walls will leave no gaps for skulks to hide behind when attacking them.

The same can be said for TF placement at a siege point. You want your TF to be against a wall (corners are a bonus) but still close enough so your sieges will be within range of the hive. The same with the actual sieges. Try to place them against walls at the edge of the TF range. Try to place them so that marines can easily cover them and the TF at once.

There are however three structures that should never be placed against walls (and other buildings), these are IPs PGs and turrets. (both IPs and pgs can be shot over anyway so they can't conceal skulks).

If your IPs and PGs are placed against walls, aliens can camp them more easily by knocking your spawning/phasing marines into walls as they come through. Building your turrets out in the open at the edge of your TFs range gives them a greater area that they can shoot through, thus increasing their overall effectiveness.

My thoughts:
While it may seem a bit of a drag placing structures at the start of the game (when speed is essential to find the hive) it eventually becomes second nature with experience. I find myself looking for a good spot for my bases on maps I have rarely played or haven't played at all. The main thing to remember is to try and give a good layout for your marines, because its alot harder to hold a TF that is either too close to a hive, too far away from a PG or just has too many hiding places for skulks. Try to keep in mind what vents are in the area and whether you think your marines will be able to hold the base your are dropping. If not, spending five seconds to find a more suitable location will save you grief in the long run.

If you need some help with spawn layouts there are some screenshots here.

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Upgrade Paths:
Now that you have your base in order, it's time to decide what upgrades your going to be choosing. In this segment I’m going to look at the advantages and disadvantages of each tech path.

First up is the Advanced Armory. The AA allows production of GLs and HMGs and grants access to the proto building. The advantages of the AA are obvious, more powerful weapons and access to proto upgrades. The two main disadvantages of the AA are the upgrade time and the fact you have to fork out another 15 res per weapon. Another disadvantage is the relative vulnerability of the AA. Even thought it has double the HP of a normal armory it still has the least amount of hp out of all the upgrade structures.

A lot of USA clans find that JP rushing on some maps can be very effective. While I am yet to be convinced of its full benefits, I can see a lot of potential for 5:00-6:00 minute rushes. (The two main reasons I am skeptical of this, is the lack of team work it promotes and the fact that one good lerk counters 105+res of upgrading.) On some maps though, JPs are almost essential (ns_orbital_cal) and a skilled team of JPers can be extremely destructive.

Unless you are in clan ROBOCOP, HA is rarely seen until after the 2nd hive is well established. HA can be extremely powerful but is easily countered by stomp. So always try to have 1 JPer in a HA mix, as he can scout new pgs and also is immune to the stomping onos (and can chase it down).

Next we move onto the Arms Lab. The Arms Lab contains 3 upgrades: Weapons (1:00+30seconds per level), Armour (1:00+30seconds per level) and Catalyst (40seconds).

Each weapon upgrade increases all marine weapon damage (except knife) by 10%. Each armor upgrade gives an extra 20 armor to marines. Catalyst is a droppable item (found in the ammo and medpack tab) that increases marine fire rate and move speed by 25% for 9 seconds. Before the recent armor patch, armour1 first was the standard. Now that marines have 30 armour, a1 has become less compulsory. That said, it’s very rare that you see an arms lab not part of the first two upgrade paths, simply because you will spend the most resources on upgrades here and getting it early on means that you have more upgrades when attacking the second hive.

The advantage of the arms lab is that it almost never runs out of upgrades to choose from (except in huge pub games) because its very rare you see a team with 3/3 ups and catalyst. The disadvantage that it requires 40 res for the first upgrade (20 for the building its self then 20 for the upgrade) and the time it takes to research every upgrade is 9:40.

Last but most definitely not least is the obs. With such a variety of upgrades I feel that the obs is one of if not the most critical structure available to the Frontiersmen. With a diverse selection of upgrades and options, the obs presents itself as a crucial early-mid game structure. Phase gates (45 seconds) can give marines the early map control they need, while MT (1:40) basically counters the mc chamber in itself and scanner sweep (20 energy) is the only weapon marines have against cloak.

At some point in the game you are going to need an obs, and the new 40 energy start means that getting it earlier rather than later is a good strategy to adopt. Lastly we must not overlook the importance of beacon when trying to hold onto key outposts, saving spawn from attack or even just to group up your marines in a pub game.

My Thoughts:
When choosing which upgrade paths to take its important to consider two things.

A. What chamber will my opponent most likely be using?
B. What upgrades will suite my team and my comming style?
C. What map are we playing?

In the case of the first question, if you are unsure what chamber they aliens are taking, try going obs and arms first as they are the more versatile of the 3 paths and the AA can be upgraded after about 1:30 (once chambers have been identified)
As a general rule, motion counters MC, scan+armor1 counters sc (even with 30 armor) and fast weapon ups counter DC (HMGs help).

This brings me to the second question. If you are playing against international clans or the majority of your marines have bad pings (150+) then you should very well consider an AA as its alot more difficult to get rego with SGs than with HMGs (the HL engine seems to favour tracing with high ping to snapping single shots with high ping).

Or say you plan to put alot of pressure on the aliens early game by rushing there nodes. You are going to want early pgs with fast armor1 and weapons 1/2, rather than HMGs which cannot be researched before 2:00 (realistically 3:00).

And lastly, some upgrades are better suited to some maps. On origin or nothing, early PGs are a must so that you can gain early map control and put pressure on alien nodes.

Now that you have an idea of what upgrades you might want to choose don't forget BE ADAPTABLE. If you chose to get arms/aa and you find that sensory has come into play then you need to switch straight away to an obs.

Killing 2nd hive:
Now its time to bring it all together. The battle has raged for about 4:00 with a bit of back and forth action. It's now time to find out which hive the aliens are puting up and how to take it down. Once you find out which hive is going up (using scan, ammo or marines spotting), take a look at the clock. You now have 3:00 to get that hive down or the aliens basically win. At around 4:00 depending on what upgrades you chose, you should either have 1/1 upgrades (arms) or PGs(obs) or HMGs/GLs(aa).

Up until this point you may have been able to keep map control without PGs, but now you need them. If you haven't got them, get them hella fast. Also now that fades are on the board your marines can no longer solo with lmgs. Get your marines to group up, drop what ever weapons you can afford (remember welders) and make your way to the hive that is building, setting up a pg. Now is the time to decide how you are going to take the hive down.

When choosing whether to shotgun or siege a hive you have to take many things into account and its important to get it right because you generally only get one shot at it. First is what chamber the aliens have.

Generally its easier to shotgun down an SC or DC hive, because MC allows aliens to immediately reinforce. Use your obs to scan the chambers if you don't already know them.

Second is your current amount of res nodes. Generally sieging requires more initial outlay but you gain a lot of res back when recycling. Compared to a successful shotgun rush, which requires less res initially, but can require more res in beacon rushes and med spam.

Third is what life forms the aliens have at the time. If the aliens have a skilled lerk, shot gunning a hive down becomes a lot more difficult due to spores and umbra.

Lastly is the actual hive itself. Some hives are a lot easier to shotgun than to siege and vice versa. Take satcomm on ns_tanith a lot of comms think that its one of the hardest hive to siege so normally you would try to shotgun this hive down. But if you were attacking EC on ns_eclipse, sieging from outside the hive is a lot less risky than pushing into it. Another thing to consider is the skill level of your marines.

A contested (meaning the aliens are aware and are fighting back) shotgun rush is a lot harder to pull of than a contested siege. Some marines find it difficult to concentrate on attacking multiple targets. By sieging you only have to focus on killing life forms as the rush you.

My thoughts:
If you choose to shotgun down a hive I recommend dropping 3 SGs, 2 HMGs (if researched), 2 packs of mines and as many welders you can afford(always drop welders with a gun.)

If you only have 50 res drop 3 SGs and 3 welders rather than 5 SGs).
Use the HMGs to cover so that the shot gunners can focus solely on getting the hive down. If you don’t have an AA then make sure you always have 2 SGs fully loaded to kill life forms.
Also killing any chambers in the hive before shooting the actual hive itself actually makes it a lot easier to finish off the hive, because A) the aliens lose one level of upgrade and Dark sunglasses.gif aliens can't make use of
the actual chamber in the hive (eg. using the sc to ambush, or using an mc to flee from the hive). A fully built hive will take 35 level2 shotgun shells (assuming all hit, and the hive doesn’t regen). Where as a just dropped hive will only take 18 shots as it starts with only 50%hp. So if you are shot gunning get in as fast as possible.

My thoughts:
If you choose to siege the hive, then tell all your marines to stay out of the hive area until you tell them to go in. This saves you loosing weapons inside as sieging forces the aliens to fight at and around the TF/PG/sieges. Remember to drop your siege base in an organized way (1 pack of mines on the PG helps too). If you need some basic layouts see the link bellow. Try to set up at least 3 sieges while keeping at least 3 res nodes alive. The more sieges you put up the faster the hive dies and the less scans it requires.

If your obs is on full energy when you are sieging a hive, start scanning as soon as the first siege goes up. By the time you use up the other 4 scans, you will have almost enough energy to scan again. The only time you send marines into a hive that is being sieged is if the aliens get a gorge(s) or if you run out of energy and need your marines to spot the hive. Be aware when spotting a hive that you need to see almost the entire hive for it to show up on minimap. Look at the miniradar or press C when viewing a hive and once it shows up, the sieges can see it and will begin to fire. Also be aware that if the siege has line of sight it will fire automatically on its own (see generator on ns_orbital_cal)

Please note with the screenshots: in some SS there is more than one TF/PG, this means that both placements of the PG/TF are good to use. Do not however place 2 set of PGs or TFs!

Eclipse:
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Orbital:

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Origin:

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Tanith:

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Veil:

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Which ever way you choose to kill the hive always have atleast 2 IPs.
Also keep an eye on any skulks that may be attacking your res and send one marine to stop them and recap if needed.

Miscellaneous tips:
Now that you know how to build a base, research upgrades and take out the second hive, these tips will give you an edge over your opponent(s).

Try to establish the hive as soon as you are done dropping your Marine Spawn. To do this, either listen for footsteps at all three hives and/or drop an ammo pack on top of where the hive should be. If the ammo pack won't drop then that is there hive. Be aware that you can't drop anything on top of water, so at CC on ns_eclipse you cannot use ammo to determine the hive. Make sure you tell your marines which hive it is.
Once you know the hive the marines on the other side of the map can rush ahead to cap res without pressure.

After you know the hive, try to listen around the nodes closest to the hive for egg or gorge noises and tell your marines which rts they are building. This gives the marines on the hive side of the map their next WP after capping the first node.

Number your upgrade buildings using ctrl+1-5 so you have them only one button away and you don’t have to keep returning to MS to upgrade.

When ever your marines are pushing into a hostile area or attempting to set up a phase gate, use a scan from your obs if you don’t have MT (even if they don’t have sc) so they can either power build the obs or are able to quickly run thru the hostile area and get to their waypoint.

Learn the hotkeys. These help a lot; especially learn the meds and ammo keys!

Try to predict when a marine will need a med or ammo and drop it before he calls. This helps you to stay on top of the ammo and med requests.

Manage your resources and nodes. There is no point in having 40 res and spending it on weapons/upgrades when you don't have any nodes to provide you with income.

Try to establish an early PG in a central map position. This will give you greater map control early on and help to put pressure on the enemy.

Never set up more than one pg when attacking 2 hives. Either have the marine at the second hive distract them by spawn camping, or get him to attack the chambers inside the hive. The more phase gates you have on the map the longer it takes phasing marines to reinforce your hive attack (and it also creates a lot more ambush opportunities).

Never recycle built rts that are under attack. Recycling a building reduces its hp by half. Therefore the tower usually dies before you gain the 7.5 res back from it. And in the time it take a single skulk to kill one tower it usually generates more than if you recycle. But always recycle unbuilt rts(that are attacked) as you get 80%(12) of your res back and they already have 50% hp.

Never get out of the CC unless you can tell what is in spawn (and think you can kill it).

It's your job to continually relay information to your marines about what is happening in parts of the map they are not in at the time (this includes events in enemy parts of the map, such as new hives RTs, eggs and chambers.)

Try using the minimap in the bottom right hand corner to move around the map. It's quicker and easier to move around than scrolling.

When playing against SC try to find and kill their chambers using scan. This has a double effect on the aliens as it reduces their map control thru their SC network, and also reduces their SC upgrade level.

Keep telling your marines what your next move is about to be. Explaining a few steps ahead in your plan can give them a chance to evaluate and change their game play to suite your next move.

Try to keep an eye on the hp of enemies that your marines are fighting. Say a fade is running from topo on low health point that out to your marines so they can attempt to ambush him. Or say a marine is shooting at a skulk attacking nodes, tell him how much health they skulk is on so he can decided whether to reload or use his knife.

Try to drop accurate meds rather than carpeting an area with them. This A) saves you res. and Dark sunglasses.gif makes it a lot easier for marines whose computers lag when meds are dropped. (Yes J I’m looking at you)

Never play for time in a prac. It's better to end the game fairly quickly (if you feel you have lost) and offer to play another map or redo that half.
This way you get more experience and its also a lot more fun for both teams.

Recycle PGs that are surrounded by aliens to stop your marines phasing through and losing there weapons.

Try to get a voice program such as ventrillo or teamspeak. Its a lot easier to understand long sentences on one of these compared to ingame. The only disadvantage is it uses more bandwith than ingame.

Play as many games comming as you can. Most aspects of your game will improve with experience!

Now, I did have some tables with Building Times/Costs/Upgrades/HP
But its very difficult to transfer them. I will host them at a later date and post a link here.

Anyway GL HF and don't get too mad when your marines don't do what they are told. Dark Smile.gif

P.S special thanks to DZR for teaching me how to link pics and other stuff much <3

Posted by: haymo Jul 28 2005, 06:17 PM
PRO GUIDE.

Posted by: dzR Jul 28 2005, 06:49 PM
It took me 30 minutes to edit it but it was worth it! Very indepth and informative!

Posted by: mf- Jul 28 2005, 07:23 PM
Very very very very pro. Preety much covers everything. Obvioulsy just by the amount of screenshots anyone can see how much effort went into this.

Posted by: volume Jul 28 2005, 07:35 PM
<3

Posted by: miffu Jul 28 2005, 07:38 PM
I havn't read it yet but i'd firstly like to commend you on the obvious effort gone into it.

Posted by: N3- Jul 28 2005, 07:44 PM
Nice guide, just some extra notes:

In your base layout, it is ideal that the ip's are near the pg and all in range of the armoury and proto. The arms can be the most distant as it doesnt have any area effect.

Mines are the cheapest and most effecient form of early base defense, they will need marines to help though (aliens dont run on them voulentarily).

Hand nades, mines, welders, and knife (ie any slot 3 or 4 item) is not affected by weapon upgrades. Turrets but not sieges are affected. Armour has no effect on any buildings. Catalysts do not increase build speed.

Its always important to keep on the offensive as marines and never just defend something. Pressure on alien nodes and hives allow your own cappers to build nodes uncontended.

Bind a key to select all, jump to order, jump to med, and jump to ammo. I all have those on my mouse.

Try to watch your marines in dangerous positions so you can med them.

Always keep track of where your marines are, and micromanage each one individually if possible.

You can usually listen for gorges and res nodes on the field to send your marines to. Killing thier nodes severely weakens them (due to alien res system).

Posted by: Az0r Jul 28 2005, 10:02 PM
QUOTE (N3- @ Jul 28 2005, 07:44 PM)
Nice guide, just some extra notes:

In your base layout, it is ideal that the ip's are near the pg and all in range of the armoury and proto. The arms can be the most distant as it doesnt have any area effect.

Mines are the cheapest and most effecient form of early base defense, they will need marines to help though (aliens dont run on them voulentarily).

Hand nades, mines, welders, and knife (ie any slot 3 or 4 item) is not affected by weapon upgrades. Turrets but not sieges are affected. Armour has no effect on any buildings. Catalysts do not increase build speed.

Its always important to keep on the offensive as marines and never just defend something. Pressure on alien nodes and hives allow your own cappers to build nodes uncontended.

Bind a key to select all, jump to order, jump to med, and jump to ammo. I all have those on my mouse.

Try to watch your marines in dangerous positions so you can med them.

Always keep track of where your marines are, and micromanage each one individually if possible.

You can usually listen for gorges and res nodes on the field to send your marines to. Killing thier nodes severely weakens them (due to alien res system).

Please note this isnt taking a shot at N3. I welcome all constructive criticism of this guide. And all points that are valid will be added when im not on 28k Dark tounge.gif

QUOTE
In your base layout, it is ideal that the ip's are near the pg and all in range of the armoury and proto. The arms can be the most distant as it doesnt have any area effect.


All my SS have the armory withing range of the ips and PG. With the obs and arms further out.

QUOTE
Mines are the cheapest and most effecient form of early base defense, they will need marines to help though (aliens dont run on them voulentarily).


I try to hold all my spawn builds without mines but i guess i should have included that.

QUOTE
Try to watch your marines in dangerous positions so you can med them.

Always keep track of where your marines are, and micromanage each one individually if possible.


YES YES YES. This is one thing i ment to write and completely forgot. I rememberd to put scan for marines in a situation like this and forget to put hover with meds. lol thanks for pointing that out.

QUOTE
You can usually listen for gorges and res nodes on the field to send your marines to. Killing thier nodes severely weakens them (due to alien res system).


I thought i added this in the tips section if i didn't, then this is another thing you MUST do.

QUOTE
Hand nades, mines, welders, and knife (ie any slot 3 or 4 item) is not affected by weapon upgrades. Turrets but not sieges are affected. Armour has no effect on any buildings. Catalysts do not increase build speed.


Ah ok i thought upgrades effected hand grenades and welders. And i only said Move and fire rate for catalyst.

And thanks for all the positive feed back keep it up!

Posted by: payon Jul 29 2005, 01:06 AM
Great idea az, covers the lot, just need to get more people to see it now.

Posted by: mR LeD Jul 29 2005, 09:11 AM
Great work Az, we needed a comm guide. I've realised there is a draught of good comms within the community, lets hope this breaks it. Good effort mate.

Posted by: Solus Jul 29 2005, 10:41 AM
Great guide azor. It'd be more useful for me though if I didn't get insta-ejected in matches Dark Sad.gif

Posted by: kurupt Jul 29 2005, 06:51 PM
shit how long did it take u to write that up good work tho Dark smilie.gif

Posted by: Vastaire Jul 30 2005, 03:41 PM
nice writeup, if only u put that much effort into actually playing the game. (hax0r) Dark Ph43r.gif

Posted by: Az0r Jul 30 2005, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (Vastaire @ Jul 30 2005, 03:41 PM)
nice writeup, if only u put that much effort into actually playing the game. (hax0r) Dark Ph43r.gif

Meh when i play im usually comm so i guess i do put that much in Dark tounge.gif

Posted by: too fast Jul 30 2005, 07:26 PM
that would of taken a long time to write and another reaon why you shouldnt place ip or phase at walls it is easyily webbed.

Posted by: Az0r Jul 30 2005, 09:10 PM
QUOTE (too fast @ Jul 30 2005, 07:26 PM)
that would of taken a long time to write and another reaon why you shouldnt place ip or phase at walls it is easyily webbed.

Yeah true. But if the aliens have 3 hives and are webbing your spawn the games long over. Good point none the less.

Posted by: Tempo Jul 31 2005, 06:54 PM
Thanks for the tips.

Posted by: mf- Jul 31 2005, 08:07 PM
My comming has improved about 200% due to this. I now aim my meds and will miss probably 1/10.

Posted by: her0 Jul 31 2005, 09:33 PM
QUOTE (Solus @ Jul 29 2005, 10:41 AM)
Great guide azor. It'd be more useful for me though if I didn't get insta-ejected in matches Dark Sad.gif

bl solus, i still <3 u. dw.

Posted by: Edde Aug 1 2005, 08:15 PM
im surprised no-one has asked where he got the time to write this.

Posted by: Az0r Aug 2 2005, 09:36 PM
1up, 1up, 1up, 1up, 1up.

Posted by: haymo Aug 4 2005, 05:49 PM
he doesn't go to school Dark Ph43r.gif

Posted by: her0 Aug 4 2005, 06:11 PM
wtfpwnt, no education ^^

Posted by: Az0r Aug 5 2005, 04:51 PM
QUOTE (her0 @ Aug 4 2005, 06:11 PM)
wtfpwnt, no education ^^

Either does richie. We plan to move to american and make our millions playing NS proffesionaly with sponsors. (jokes)

Posted by: mR LeD Aug 5 2005, 07:23 PM
I hope that doesnt include cheating Dark Ph43r.gif

rofl Az0r, it was called for.

Posted by: Az0r Aug 5 2005, 07:49 PM
QUOTE (mR LeD @ Aug 5 2005, 07:23 PM)
I hope that doesnt include cheating Dark Ph43r.gif

rofl Az0r, it was called for.

Meh im over it.

Posted by: mR LeD Aug 5 2005, 11:27 PM
No offense intended man =D

<3

Posted by: Vastaire Aug 12 2005, 03:19 PM
lol your over it?

the only assurance we have that fgts wont cheat, is if they have the fortitude + moral decency not to be a hacking sk lamer.

you have showed u lack both, thus should be shunned by the gaming community - we have no clue if ur hacking now or not (yes, in the comm chair.. u faggot edde).

Posted by: Az0r Aug 12 2005, 08:01 PM
QUOTE (Vastaire @ Aug 12 2005, 03:19 PM)
lol your over it?

the only assurance we have that fgts wont cheat, is if they have the fortitude + moral decency not to be a hacking sk lamer.

you have showed u lack both, thus should be shunned by the gaming community - we have no clue if ur hacking now or not (yes, in the comm chair.. u faggot edde).

Obviously my hack wrote this guide. Not my experience playing ns.

Posted by: Edde Aug 12 2005, 11:45 PM
QUOTE (Vastaire @ Aug 12 2005, 03:19 PM)
(yes, in the comm chair.. u faggot edde).

please tell me, god almighty, how do you hack a commchair?

Posted by: Vastaire Aug 13 2005, 09:17 PM
QUOTE (Edde @ Aug 12 2005, 11:45 PM)
how do you hack a commchair?

How about this, don't hack. If you hack, fuck off.

nice guide btw

Posted by: Karma Aug 15 2005, 05:48 PM
If hackers choose to remain in the communites presence they have to tolerate the abuse that will be directed at them until the end of time, bl.

But this forum doesn't have to tolerate retarded 3rd parties acting like children, take it somewhere else.

Posted by: nEe Aug 15 2005, 10:36 PM
I read your guide and its pretty good!
Can I add something about TF placement.

I cannot stress enough that a TF must be placed against a wall "so it only has one side to be attacked from" What I mean by this is that for example if the max amount of turrets you can have for a TF is 4 then you would wack 4 down surrounding it. However this is wastefull as a fade or another life form will come in and attack the TF from one side and also be ducking down, therefore wasting 2 of your turrets. If its flush against a wall or corner, in order for a fade or anything else to attack it, it must recieve full punishment from your turrets Dark smilie.gif

-nEe

Posted by: haymo Aug 16 2005, 04:45 PM
nEe nice tip but i think az0r is talking more about where to place them for sieging other than lockdowns.

Posted by: Richie Aug 16 2005, 05:05 PM
mines own

Posted by: Klient Aug 17 2005, 04:54 PM
Hrmmm - I like this guide - quite informative... Just what I'm lacking to bring me upto speed. I was getting good in 2.0 for a while, then stopped playing for sometime. But haven't really got back into commanding as yet.

Posted by: kai Aug 20 2005, 02:39 PM
Good, we're running short of good commanders in these 'rough' times Dark lol.gif

Posted by: Mr Abominable Snowman Sep 20 2005, 01:51 PM
Thanks heaps for the article...

i want to learn how to comm but have nfi, will def. try, and will aim to be better than Haymo Dark Smile.gif

is there any advice in actually where to get experience as a comm from?
cause in pub games, its almost impossible to go comm (being kicked out), or ur (/me) are shit scared to as ur pretty much screwing up everyone on ur teams hope to have a good fun ns game
Are there any bots released (for this version of ns) yet to use?


i know u have explained it (more than most other articles)
but i dont understand the mid-end game:
when should electrified rts and turrets be used? or is it really up to comm?
and when do u actually shottie/gl/hmg/ha/jp spam ur team? after someone gets a pg, after lvl2 damage upgraded, or armour lvl#?

and also how should you be directing your troops? (in pub games)
waypointing to a hive and physically mapping out everything, or just 'improvise' wherever a person is? and work from there?

well, thanks for the guide, and feel free to :@ at me for missing bits where i might have read over Dark tounge.gif

cheers

Posted by: N3- Sep 20 2005, 06:16 PM
QUOTE (Mr Abominable Snowman @ Sep 20 2005, 11:51 AM)
Thanks heaps for the article...

i want to learn how to comm but have nfi, will def. try, and will aim to be better than Haymo Dark Smile.gif

is there any advice in actually where to get experience as a comm from?
cause in pub games, its almost impossible to go comm (being kicked out), or ur (/me) are shit scared to as ur pretty much screwing up everyone on ur teams hope to have a good fun ns game
Are there any bots released (for this version of ns) yet to use?


i know u have explained it (more than most other articles)
but i dont understand the mid-end game:
when should electrified rts and turrets be used? or is it really up to comm?
and when do u actually shottie/gl/hmg/ha/jp spam ur team? after someone gets a pg, after lvl2 damage upgraded, or armour lvl#?

and also how should you be directing your troops? (in pub games)
waypointing to a hive and physically mapping out everything, or just 'improvise' wherever a person is? and work from there?

well, thanks for the guide, and feel free to :@ at me for missing bits where i might have read over Dark tounge.gif

cheers

Don't really electrify at all UNLESS you have a two hive lock down of sorts and want an elecced res next to the phase. Turrets sometimes used in hive lockdowns or sieging. Remeber only ever spend res to lockdown a hive if you have both spare hives, a lockdown in just one hive is completely useless.

As for upgrades, start getting them early and continue though the game, ideally you want weapons 2 and armour 1 by the time you need to attack the 2nd hive. Guns need to be distributed with a purpose, this could be: making your way to a hive, destroying a hive, or defendign a siege point at a hive.

Improvise your orders as marines advance, die and depending on what the aliens are doing, ie might need to kill some res or the building hive. Waypoints are good, but using the mic or telling ppl where to go helps as well.

As for practising, yes there are bots and i believe some guides on how to use them. Keep trying to comm in pub games as well and also watch how good comms do thier job. If your thinking of playing ns competitively then you could also look into joining up with NSP-farm.

Posted by: Mr Abominable Snowman Sep 20 2005, 08:37 PM
cool thanks... yeah i think ive just signed up...
been trying to comm a few pubs Dark tounge.gif
people actually have been pretty friendly, which is encouragement. And the guide is actually really helping...
though im real slow and really bad at giving ammo and health...
whats the best way to do it?, i.e. repsond to a call, spacebar sometimes doenst help, as it keep going to places under attack, and , (i think) is defunct for me not sure y...

btw, should i ever turret farm spawn? or just beacon?
cause i was just playing, and base was under attack, so i baconed, and people got pissed, and later, people were attacking hive so i didnt want to bacon, and lost adv. armoury...

Posted by: haymo Sep 21 2005, 12:45 AM
if it's one skulk and he's preoccupied attacking a building you can usually jump out and kill it before it can turn around.

Posted by: N3- Sep 21 2005, 01:25 AM
Calling some marines to phase back can also help, or maybe even put an hmg'er on base guard while the rest kill the hive. Turrets at base wont stop much.

Posted by: Az0r Sep 21 2005, 01:56 AM
N3 explained most of what you wanted to know. Try to beacon as little as possible. As you loose all your forward marines and give the aliens valuable time when you do. But sure if theres fades in your spawn you need to save it so beacon. For end game, if you succesfully destroyed the second hive then you have basically won so long as aliens dont have overwhelming resources. So you can just tech up allitle and push slowly into the last hive. However if the 2nd hive gets up and you are pushed out of your attacking base, you basically have to get proto tech to stay in the game. Today 2hive aliens are almost as deadly as 3 hive aliens of yesteryears versions.

Posted by: ir.pegg Sep 22 2005, 08:08 PM
i love you az0r

Posted by: Az0r Sep 26 2005, 02:10 AM
Working on a map by map stratergie guide, expect it to be finished sometime in the next month.

Posted by: mR LeD Sep 27 2005, 09:45 AM
QUOTE (ir.pegg @ Sep 22 2005, 08:08 PM)
i love you az0r

dark blink.gif

why the hell would someone want to do that? ( Dark lol.gif )

Posted by: clor Nov 3 2005, 12:04 PM
QUOTE (Az0r @ Sep 26 2005, 03:10 AM)
Working on a map by map stratergie guide, expect it to be finished sometime in the next month.

hate to bump, but this would be awesome. any progress?

Posted by: Az0r Nov 4 2005, 06:28 PM
Oh been tied down recently, but ive finished viel with both teams strats+ss ill post it over the weekend

Posted by: Digital Anthrax Nov 5 2005, 02:12 PM
Sounds like a lot of work :< gl for whenever you ever get around to it az0r!

Posted by: Az0r Nov 6 2005, 11:21 AM
Waiting on Dzr to help me with a few things. Hes got exams so hes abit busy too, should be up soon though.

Posted by: scratchie Jun 17 2006, 04:59 PM
If you place youre obs to far from youre CC you are not able to see skulks ambushing you when you think therse is just 1 skulk biting the armory. If you place this more to the CC youre able to see all the skulks in your base, and the most important one is the skulk behind youre CC to bite you as soon as you Log out. I can be wrong that youre placement is exactly right,
What is the range of the obs?
tnx

Posted by: scratchie Jun 17 2006, 07:18 PM
Àlso want to add that your base in ns_origin isnt so effective, you want to drop your guns so that your guys walk from the ip straight into the pg. In your screenshot i think the armory doesnt reach that spot.

Posted by: N3- Jun 17 2006, 07:28 PM
you can see the range of buildings by clicking on them...
furthermore i would discourage buildings the obs right near the cc, it's a favourite for skulks to chew and theres not just gonna be 1 skulk standing around the cc wasting thier time. so with that in mind, the obs need to be distant enough to allow the comm to somewhat defend it.

Posted by: scratchie Jun 17 2006, 07:35 PM
tbh, if you watch some matches. If there are 2 skulks in base 1 usually sits behind the CC to take down the unaware commander. This lets them have no commander ( no beacon, no meds etc) Now 2 skulks have time to kill the armory, ip and so on. I really recommend dropping an obs in range of the CC.

Posted by: N3- Jun 17 2006, 09:12 PM
obviosuly you dont jump out if theres a skulk there, the obs does have a pretty big range. nevertheless, can't say i watch many pub games

Posted by: anubis Jun 18 2006, 04:00 PM
why would a skulk waste time sitting behind a command chair when he could be focusing his attacks on stuff that actually matters?

Posted by: scratchie Jun 18 2006, 07:04 PM
As said in the guide, the whole marine base is based on fast phasing , ass less alien hiding spots as possible and should be easy to kill aliens at for the commander. So when a skulk is attacking the armory, he is an easy target for the commander. I presume you guys do Log out, coz you think there isnt accualy an ambush ready. So you kill those 2 skulk humping the armory.
But if "what i would do in a 2 skulk base attack" 1 skulk is behind the CC the commander dies, and now you force the marines to come back to base.
This is all early game so no phasegates. If you decide not to jump out, base dies aswell only takes a bit longer. But worth it if you ask me. The commander is very important to the marines and having a chance to knock him out should not be wasted.

So ambushing is
A. More secure to accualy take out a structure.
B. Having a chance to kill the commander.
C. If you dont do it, you have the chance to both die because the commander kills you.

Posted by: Az0r Jun 18 2006, 07:06 PM
Actually thats one of my weaknesses, once or twice boost have and possible other clans have exploited this and killed me using a skulk on the CC.

As for the origin spawn placement, obviously ever comm has a their own personal prefference as to where to place certain structures, I prefer to put the pg close to the ips. I'm pretty sure that i can drop guns on atleast part of the PG in that picture too.

Posted by: Trayder Jun 18 2006, 08:36 PM
I prefer obs placement to cover the entrances, to get behind ur cc the skulk has to enter ur base 1st Dark tounge.gif

Also helps with ambushes right outside spawn (tanith). But you gotta keep in mind obs die quick.

Posted by: Az0r Jun 18 2006, 09:37 PM
QUOTE (scratchie @ Jun 18 2006, 07:04 PM)
As said in the guide, the whole marine base is based on fast phasing , ass less alien hiding spots as possible and should be easy to kill aliens at for the commander. So when a skulk is attacking the armory, he is an easy target for the commander. I presume you guys do Log out, coz you think there isnt accualy an ambush ready. So you kill those 2 skulk humping the armory.
But if "what i would do in a 2 skulk base attack" 1 skulk is behind the CC the commander dies, and now you force the marines to come back to base.
This is all early game so no phasegates. If you decide not to jump out, base dies aswell only takes a bit longer. But worth it if you ask me. The commander is very important to the marines and having a chance to knock him out should not be wasted.

So ambushing is
A. More secure to accualy take out a structure.
B. Having a chance to kill the commander.
C. If you dont do it, you have the chance to both die because the commander kills you.

The problem with early spawn rushes is that they are easily countered.
Take your example of 2 skulks rushing spawn.
This leaves 2 gorges getting res, and 2 skulks defending.
If i was rushed in such a fashion i would immediately tell all 5 marines to rush RT's get them down ASAP and build an obs at the RT.
Now you can either choose to relo or beacon and rebuild your spawn, and you would be up 3rts to the aliens 1 or 2.

Both teams would be low on res, but due to the pooling nature of the marine teams res, they can quickly re-cap, where aliens would have to saccrifice either the early lerk early fade early hive or chambers to gain back the node.

Posted by: N3- Jun 18 2006, 09:40 PM
QUOTE (scratchie @ Jun 18 2006, 07:04 PM)
So ambushing is

D. waiting around in the marine base whilst they dominate your res towers which are completely undefended.

Posted by: Trayder Jun 18 2006, 10:12 PM
QUOTE (Az0r @ Jun 18 2006, 09:37 PM)
The problem with early spawn rushes is that they are easily countered.

Yes but the two skulk trick can be also used to the same effect once lifeforms are out and is often a game ender. Especially since at that stage of the game alot more time and money has gone into the marine spawn and higher lifeforms are able to quickly mobilise in defence or spawn trashing.

Posted by: Mr Charisma Jun 18 2006, 10:36 PM
Skulks should be able to build resource towers (not sarcasm).

Posted by: scratchie Jun 18 2006, 11:34 PM
Òfcourse you need to defend your rt's. You rush to ms when you know all the marines are spread up and not in the area of your rt's.

Marines need 15 res for obs, 15 to beacon, 20 res to rebuild ip, maybe armory 30 so that would cost them around 70 res and alien just have -1 rt.

So my point: Just build that obs a little more closer to that cc. You need to watch for ambushes when you are outside base anyway. That one more check woulndt hurt.

Posted by: haymo Jun 19 2006, 02:03 PM
an organised marine team will put enough pressure on the aliens to make sure the aliens are busy defending, and if they do attack, a good comm will hear/predict it and the person recapping will come back to ms to help. Usually a pg will be placed, the comm will log in time with the other marine or he will beacon.

Also you're marine team would have to be pretty owned not to be able to come back to spawn in time to save the spawn rush. No team has all five marines attacking res usually one or two will continue to cap and those ones are close enough to spawn to return.

Posted by: Phirt Jun 19 2006, 02:47 PM
misread ftw

Posted by: Az0r Jun 20 2006, 01:47 PM
QUOTE (Trayder @ Jun 18 2006, 10:12 PM)
QUOTE (Az0r @ Jun 18 2006, 09:37 PM)
The problem with early spawn rushes is that they are easily countered.

Yes but the two skulk trick can be also used to the same effect once lifeforms are out and is often a game ender. Especially since at that stage of the game alot more time and money has gone into the marine spawn and higher lifeforms are able to quickly mobilise in defence or spawn trashing.

IF you dont have an obs to beacon with late game you've already lost. If you dont have a forward PG position to phase back to you're in trouble there too : /.

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